Given the WICKED: for Good trailer caused such excitement, we’re revisiting our own coverage of the Wicked Witch of the West– two years ago, I explored the concepts of evil and good in relation to pop culture and parenting.

With a new podcast called “Out Think the Classics,” I gave families the historical, cultural, and emotional context to decide which stories from our childhoods have a place in our lives today.

In our first episode, we explored the concept of evil in classical kids’ stories, like Loki and Studio Ghibli before asking how families can decide whether to separate the art from the artist with Roald Dahl and Dr. Seuss.

We start this journey with the Wicked Witch of the West--be sure to follow the links at the bottom for more recent discussions around WICKED. (You can tell I’m a baby podcaster in this one too. Thank goodness my guests were game!)

Please welcome Licensed Mental Health Therapist Lauren Mazzarese and Freelance Arts Manager Lia Kozatch to dig into the iconography and cultural impact of our favorite green witch, and discover some surprising parenting advice along the yellow brick road.

In this episode, we cover:

• Defining Evil: A Complex Question
• The Symbolism of Witches and Villains
• Empathy and Understanding Evil
• Exploring Iconography in Movies/Color Contrasts and Symbolism
• Dorothy’s Emotional Journey
• The Complexity of Villains
• Understanding Trauma and Media Influence
• The Importance of Listening to Children

Comment below or email editor@outthinkmedia.com if you’d like a specific topic or guest.

Read more

“The Marvels: When the Villain is the Hero of Their Own Story”

Listen to more

WICKED: When the Hero Must Play the Villain”

Website/Library of Reviews/Dialogues | Instagram | Bluesky

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Show Notes

1. “How the Bad Guys Teach Kid Empathy,” Out Think Media, 24 October, 2022.

2. Original illustration of Glinda, the Witch of the North, from L. Frank Baum’s The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, 1899.

3. Image of Gale Sondergaard’s screen test for the role

4. “Margaret Hamilton Visits Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood,” Fred Rogers Productions, 31 October 2019.

5. Maguire, Gregory, Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch, 1995.

6. Holzman, Winnie and Schwartz, Stephen, Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, 28 May 2003.

7. Coughlin, Sara, “Cauldrons, Broomsticks & Pointy Hats – A Real Witch Explains These Common Symbols,” Refinery 29, 29 October 2019.

8. “Using Kids’ Media to Teach Emotional Language: Charlie Brown,” Out Think Media, 5 November 2022. 

9. Francis, Ali, “The Myth of the Evil Stepmother,” BBC Family Tree, 21 November 2022.

10. Griffith, D.W. and Woods, Frank E.,The Birth of a Nation, 1915. 

11. Van Der Kolk, Bessel, The Body Keeps the Score, 8 September 2015.

Lauren Mazzarese (she/her) is a Licensed Professional Counselor who has been working as a therapist for the past 10 years. In her practice she focuses on several areas including substance abuse, trauma, LGBTQ+ issues, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder and ADHD. Part of her work with her clients often involves working with parents to address the mental and emotional health of their children. Lauren also has a background in theatre and spent several years performing on stage as well as teaching acting and music. She enjoys being able to incorporate many of the theatre skills and activities she learned in her first career into her therapeutic practice. 

Lia Kozatch (they/she) is currently a freelance arts manager with a focus on the performing arts (digital and in-person), labor rights for arts workers, environmental sustainability practices in the arts sector, collaborative city development plans, and intersectional activism for arts makers and audiences of historically and currently marginalized identities (socioeconomic, age, geographic, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, religion, disability, and more). Born and raised in Colorado, Lia has worked with people all over the world with the mission of providing wider access to live and recorded performing arts experiences for all.

Cindy Marie Jenkins (she/her), Host & Creative Producer. I have written at the intersection of parenting, tech, and pop culture for over ten years, and entertainment journalism for even longer.

As a published essayist/journalist in both international and national publications, I always gravitate toward helping families and educators. While Deputy Editor for JingKids Int’l, I discovered how to channel my rabbit hole research skills, experience as a reviewer, and urge to help families into practical and emotionally open articles. That’s why I was excited to launch this venture to help families evaluate content creators on YouTube and have the dialogues needed to understand this new world.

Shortly after graduating from NYU, I moved to Los Angeles where I was a Teaching Artist at multiple local nonprofits, such as CTGLA (Center Theatre Group), Safe Moves, the Virginia Avenue Project, Enrichment Works, before building and managing an arts education wing of Antaeus Company and expanding its professional classical Academy.

For 15 years, I’ve run multiple workshops on arts marketing, outreach, and partnerships and was one of the first to pioneer digital marketing for Los Angeles theaters and nonprofits. Noticing that one gap between artists and potential audiences was curation, I produced and hosted review shows for both the emerging web series genre and traditional arts like live theatre.

Now, I’m thrilled to use all of this experience in arts and higher education, theatre for young audiences, kids media literacy, writing, and outreach to present Taming of the Screensin schools and for community groups.

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The OutThink Team

Learn more about OutThink Media

Cindy Marie Jenkins, Host & Creative Producer

Lia Kozatch & Lauren Mazzarese, Special Guests

Avi Glijanksy, Podcast Producer

Adam Emperor Southard, Theme Composer (also a fantastic photographer)

Annie Collins, PR & Marketing Manager

Angela Zhong, Logo Designer/OutThink Media

Maria Pasquarelli, Canva Coordinator

Produced by CMJ Communications LLC, DBA OutThink Media

Help us out! Share the trailer here.